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Old 02-18-2011, 11:39 AM  
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Originally Posted by Hillman View Post
their are Jeep HATERS on this forum
Where are these haters you speak of?





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Old 02-18-2011, 02:16 PM  
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Originally Posted by havasu View Post
Where are these haters you speak of?





http://www.cityprofile.com/forum/aut...54/index3.html

.........just say'n.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:22 PM  
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Originally Posted by BlindRef View Post
My take on this is that it is up to God to decide which religion is appropiate. I would think he would accept all religions that recognize him, but I don't know.
God has no interest in "religion". Religion is of man. It is man's way of rationalizing and interpreting God or a god.

He, God, only "accepts" those who accept His Son The Christ Jesus. Those that reject Jesus, are rejected by God.

Simply complex!
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:49 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
that seems like a very spiteful god to me, doesn't care how you act as long as you believe in him? or even if you lead an exemplary liffe and get to the gates of heaven he will be "you lead a great life and I can't fault you for anything, you cared more about people and acted more ethically then the vast majority of my followers, but you didn't believe in me based on the highly illogical and questionable reasons for believing in me so to hell you go.

come on.....
"OK. I'll come on........

First...."that seems like a very spiteful god to me, doesn't care how you act as long as you believe in him?" He does care how you act. He gave you Jesus as an example of how to "act". With that being said, God is jealous and vengeful. He is jealous that we think more of this worldly life than we do of worshiping him and He is vengeful in that hell exist (or for some, eternal punishment) for those who reject His truth. Everyone knows of heaven and hell, regardless of how you define them, whether they believe the truth or not.

Secondly......"or even if you lead an exemplary liffe and get to the gates of heaven he will be "you lead a great life and I can't fault you for anything, you cared more about people and acted more ethically then the vast majority of my followers, but you didn't believe in me based on the highly illogical and questionable reasons for believing in me so to hell you go." God knows we will sin..it is our nature. He does not accept us based on our lives lived as in good or bad. WE ARE BAD! If that were the case heaven would be empty. Only one person, God incarnate, Jesus, has lived an earthly "good" life. It was this good life, the righteous life, that Jesus lived that qualified Him as the sacrificial lamb that would die for our sins. It is our faith in Jesus that reconciles us to "enter the Pearly Gates", not what we do. We can never "do" enough to have salvation assured. "What we do" is counted as righteous only after we put Jesus as Lord and Savior in our lives. After that, what we do, for God/Jesus, is "stored up in heaven" which is directly related to our heavenly reward.

Simply complex!
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:51 PM  
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Originally Posted by RiponredTJ View Post
I think the key is to be a "good person".
To be able to distinguish between right and wrong and to always endeavour to do the right thing.
Even though we may fail in that respect sometimes, as long as the will and the effort to lead a "good life" is there, we're on the right track.
The "key" to what? Salvation?
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:54 PM  
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Originally Posted by RiponredTJ View Post
It's fine with me if that's what you believe.
Just don't try to convince me it's better than what I believe.
What do you believe?
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:58 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
I find it odd the only people to respond to this are atheists or at least against organized religion, we can't as a forum be that different of a demographic compared to the general population... wonder if the religious are afraid to admit it was just because their family and friends were into it....
Nope! 1 Peter 3:13-15

Go..........
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Old 02-22-2011, 05:21 PM  
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Originally Posted by Hillman View Post
Secondly......"or even if you lead an exemplary liffe and get to the gates of heaven he will be "you lead a great life and I can't fault you for anything, you cared more about people and acted more ethically then the vast majority of my followers, but you didn't believe in me based on the highly illogical and questionable reasons for believing in me so to hell you go." God knows we will sin..it is our nature. He does not accept us based on our lives lived as in good or bad. WE ARE BAD! If that were the case heaven would be empty. Only one person, God incarnate, Jesus, has lived an earthly "good" life. It was this good life, the righteous life, that Jesus lived that qualified Him as the sacrificial lamb that would die for our sins. It is our faith in Jesus that reconciles us to "enter the Pearly Gates", not what we do. We can never "do" enough to have salvation assured. "What we do" is counted as righteous only after we put Jesus as Lord and Savior in our lives. After that, what we do, for God/Jesus, is "stored up in heaven" which is directly related to our heavenly reward.

Simply complex!
you kind of missed my point.....

so if that is the case why does "god" "want" me to follow any particular religion? why can't someone be good all on their own and be fine? Is god really that spiteful?

I can't imagine living like you do thinking you are living in sin and everything that an imaginary mythical being you've never said thinks is bad as determined by modern day people from a 2000 year old book written by man..... seems it would be an awfully depressing way to live
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:20 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
you kind of missed my point.....No, I got your point. My answers, understandably, do not meet your expectations. Your questions are valid but are delivered from a..........(I'm selecting my words carefully) a skewed perspective. Skewed is not meant to be negative in any way. It is merely meant to define a perspective different than mine. Basically, and monumentally, I am a believer and you, I am assuming, are not. See below. I'll try to better explain.

so if that is the case why does "god" "want" me to follow any particular religion? My experience and study has shown me that God doesn't want us to follow any religion at all. Scripture never outlines any type nor does scripture name any religion(s). Religion is a product of man. It's complex, corrupt, over bearing, difficult....and various other bad things but "it" is not of God. God, represented in Jesus, stated that the most important command was to love. All of the other stuff like creeds, doctrinal statements, tradition, etc are important only when seen through the lens of love. Religion, by definition, is the spring from which most, if not all, of man's problems flow. When believers cling to religion and not God their faith is in jeopardy. why can't someone be good all on their own and be fine? Is god really that spiteful? Great question. Why not? On the surface the question makes sense...being good, after all, is good. The assumption would be the better you are the more God will accept you. Again, my experience and study has shown that "being good" is not a requirement of one's salvation. The simple yet complex answer to ones salvation is simply belief. The mystery surrounding one's belief is announced and projected as one's faith. Additionally, one's faith is defined by what and how one believes what scripture reveals about God and how that faith flows from ones heart in manifestation of what one does. In other words, sequentially speaking, works without faith mean nothing to God. Faith in God will result in works that are pleasant to God. To focus on being good and not focusing on God puts the "works" before God. When we focus on God, that in itself, will result in the works that have heavenly, not worldly, reward.

I can't imagine living like you do thinking you are living in sin Again, from my skewed perspective based on my experience and study, to be a true believing Christian requires the acceptance of the fact that we are fallen (sinners) and this fallen state has separated us from the the Perfect love of God. This separation was made right by Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross. and everything that an imaginary mythical being Understandably, you consider Him mythical and imaginary. My, perspective, which is skewed from yours, based on my experience and study shows His influence in a real and productive way. I receive comfort from that influence while you feel tension. I see clarity where you see vagueness. I see see and have experienced His love where you don't or haven't. you've never said thinks is bad as determined by modern day people from a 2000 year old book written by man Again, valid question. It is a stumbling block for many...even true believers. You didn't mention its inerrancy so I will. The bible was written by man, corrupt man at that. Mistakes were made in it's repetitious preceding volumes following the first inspired manuscripts. This is my understanding (in a nutshell) concerning scripture; The only perfect manuscripts, no mistakes, were the original manuscripts written by the originally inspired authors. Mistakes were, and are, being made for every version, revision, paraphrase, or what ever you want to call it for every bible being printed or hand written. As you said, "they are of man", I'll broaden that statement to include "corrupted man". That is the result of our "fallen state" as mentioned earlier. I am not implying that in any of the these mistakes was maliciousness intended. It is just a fact that mistakes will be made. These "mistakes", however, do not corrupt the work of the Holy Spirit in any way. The inerrancy of scripture does not denote misspellings, date mistakes, geographical mistakes, etc.. The inerrancy of scripture lies in the ability of scripture to do the inerrant work of God of revealing himself to "those that might be led to belief". ..... seems it would be an awfully depressing way to live When looked at as you do (spiteful God, God being imaginary and mythical, and finding His love to be depressing)...yes it would be depressing. When looked at as I do, it is the most wonderful, fulfilling, rewarding part of life.
You have good questions. I like the way you think and the patient way you present your questions. We don't agree, but that's OK. I'm sure my , so called answers, only caused more questions, so ask away.

Let me know your thoughts. I'm interested in what and why you believe in what you you do as well.
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:54 AM  
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I'm a Pantheist:
Belief that God rests or resides in EVERYTHING.

This Belief developed from giving christianity 6 years of attendance then LISTENING to my Parents over many years onward as well READING/STUDYING LITERATURE, Tomes, Phamplets of the Theosophical University Press, as well discussing passages, texts, etc., with Scholarly Humans including my Father.
Incoporates Theosophy, Theology.
----
On to WHY I'm a Pantheist:

>The many that claim to be Christian yet directing their Lives in opposing force to true Christianity. Cases in point; former presidents of the u.s.a.
Espousing select verses from the bible and usually the NEW TESTAMENT, King James version, Giddeon, etc., where the OLD TESTAMENT is oft overlooked or disregarded.
The OLD TESTAMENT is apparently only read by the Jewish Peoples, so go figure, I suppose because the O. T. has relevant messages not comprehended in todays socio-religious structure.

Jesus was a good person and teacher and had good messages which were heard by the few.
I however do not believe he died for any sins in Human Nature nor do I need be saved from some improbable calamity simply because I was Born.

Greek society had wonderful Philosophies as well MANY Dieties, of which are well placed in society, literature, etc.

>The Amish, Quakers, Mennonites appear not bothered by other People nor do they go about with prognostications of how wonderful their Beliefs are and why folks should sign on.

>The many that claim to be Catholic seem hell bent on the negative side which brought us the well known attrocities known as the Inquisition.
Such a wonderful philosophy which can easily explain, in part, the mess this world has become.

>Protestants refuse to listen to/prefer to ignore Christians as well many Christians refuse to listen to/prefer to ignore Mormons. Is there a pattern here?

Pantheism does not require prayer (prayer defeats self reliance), attending a clothing comparison (church), witnessing/proclaiming the Belief to other People (like "have you heard the word of god lately?"), or in any way, shape or form, announcing it to the World other than in calm, direct speak when answering questions like of this Topic.
Theologists, Theosophists do not go about gathering their horde. Our messages speak for themselves and attract those that WANT to attend.
No dues, fees, tithing, clothing requirement, specific days to attend, or other attributes aligned with devotions, songs, chants, etc.
WE see the Light in EVERYTHING , not in certain "allowed" views.

>>I see no problem with Atheists for IT IS a Belief that cannot and should not be challenged.

What about Voodoo?? No one seems to have a hankering for this Belief and the ones that follow its doctrines don't get much if any coverage.

Theistic Beliefs are Diestic in nature and shall not be abrogated.

ALL RELIGIONS are based in the same Philosophies as they ALL relate to the same message:
Be Right And True To Thyself.

Remember:
THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH!!

May The Blessed Be!!
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